LMS Free Trial
Home > Media Center > Transcript

Interview with Guy Wallace (Transcript)

Text Size  - +  Print  Print


Announcer: SyberWorks podcast. Learn any time, any place.

Mary Kay Lofurno: Welcome to the next episode of the SyberWorks e-Learning Podcast series. I am Mary Kay Lofurno, Marketing Director here at SyberWorks and your host today.

SyberWorks specializes in custom e-learning solutions, learning management systems, and custom e-learning development for companies, governments and non-profit institutions.

Today, in part two of our miniseries on lean-ISD, we will again be talking with Guy Wallace, a Certified Performance Technologist and President of EPPIC Incorporated, an instructional design and performance improvement consulting firm located in North Carolina.

In the first part of our miniseries, we defined “lean-ISD” and looked at the curriculum architecture design which supports it. In part two of our series we will compare lean-ISD to the ADDIE model of instructional design. So stay tuned for some great information to help you with your training program rollouts.


We will begin our second interview with Guy Wallace, President of EPPIC, Inc., an instructional design and learning performance consulting firm.

Good afternoon Guy. It’s great to have you back with us here today.

Guy Wallace: It’s good to be back, Mary Kay.

Mary Kay: Guy, just in case we have people listening who didn’t hear the first podcast, can you refresh us on what you meant when we were talking about lean-ISD and performance competence?

Guy: Sure. First of all, ISD is an acronym for “Instructional Systems Design” or “Development”. That typically refers to a sound, research-proven set of methods for developing performance-based instruction. “Lean-ISD” is my book that describes my methods for ISD, which includes three levels of instructional systems design; with common methods, tools and techniques for planning and managing those efforts, as well as for the analysis efforts for each of those three levels of ISD.

The three levels of ISD are: at the top, curriculum architecture design; in the middle, modular curriculum development; and, at the lower level, instructional activity development. This generally equates to systems engineering at the top, product engineering and development in the middle, and component engineering and development at the lower level.

All are intended to focus squarely on improving or sustaining performance competence, which is the ability to perform tasks that produce outputs to stakeholder requirements. What is key about that is understanding, via the analysis methods, what those tasks, of a typical task analysis, are intended to produce, and what do customers and other stakeholders require of the output itself and/or the process tasks.

Mary Kay: Today we are comparing lean-ISD to the traditional ADDIE model of instructional design. Guy, for the people who may not know, can you define the ADDIE model for us?

Guy: Sure. ADDIE is also an acronym that stands for “Analysis, Design, Development, Implementation” and finally, “Evaluation”. ADDIE is a new product development methodology for the product or products of instruction.

Mary Kay: Isn’'t the ADDIE model, as an approach to content development, kind of dead on arrival nowadays? In the training and development community, I mean. What do you think?

Guy: Well, sadly this is all too true in too many places. While rapid prototyping and rapid development are appropriate in some situations, especially after you’ve conducted a curriculum architecture design effort and have performance and enabling knowledge and skill-analysis data, they are not appropriate in many cases unless you really don't care about the gaps and overlaps in your collection of courses.

Rapid development may also be OK when you are developing additional content chunks after earlier efforts. Say, you’re going to develop another batch of product knowledge, procedural guides or lessons learned content and there are examples that preceded those efforts.

Mary Kay: Guy, can you articulate for us the difference between your ADDIE methods, which you label as “MCD”, from traditional ADDIE? What does “MCD” stand for, by the way?

Guy: I’m glad you asked. MCD, another acronym, means “Modular Curriculum Development/Acquisition”, because you may build new content or buy it, and you may use existing content as-is or after modification.

Generally it’s a loose-tight approach to content development using standard data collection tools and methods. Traditional ADDIE is practiced in so many different ways that it's really unfair to compare or contrast traditional ADDIE with MCD.

Mary Kay: What are the standard tools and templates you can use at this level?

Guy: In analysis we use four tools and templates. We have a Target Audience Data format, a Performance Model format, an Enabling Knowledge/Skill Matrices format, and an Existing T&D Assessment (for reuse potential) format.

In design we use an Event Map of Lessons, a Lesson Map of Instructional Activities, and an Instructional Activities Specification.

Mary Kay: You know Guy, we hear a lot today, in the training world, about rapid prototyping. How does rapid development/rapid prototyping fit into your approach and how long does it usually take?

Guy: Well, again, rapid development is appropriate if your content design rules and tools support an incremental bottom-up approach to design and development, as well as a top-down approach, so that everything will eventually fit together as an instructional system later on. But too often rapid development or rapid prototyping is the unique approach of a single ISDer (Instructional System Designer) and putting all the pieces together later on requires so much re-work that groups often just abandon the existing content and start all over from scratch. So they end up creating redundant content for their inventory.

Mary Kay: Sounds like a waste of money.

Guy: Yes.

Mary Kay: What’s the proof of concept here? I mean, what are the factors one should monitor to be sure they're on the right track in this process, Guy?

Guy: The proof of concept has been over fifty applications by me, myself, personally, over the past twenty years, and hundreds more by my business partners, consulting-firm staff members and the couple of hundred client staff members and subcontractors I’ve trained, and sometimes certified, at various Fortune 500 firms.

The thing to monitor that you’re on track, though, is kind of built into the process, in that the use of master performers and designated subject-matter experts to generate the data for analysis, to generate the design, and to develop the content after the design, is really key. So it’s truly engaging master performers in the process that’s really going to keep one on track.

Mary Kay: I know you have a book. Why don’t you tell us about that?

Guy: Yes, I have a book, “lean-ISD”, that covers this in some great depth. It’s available as a free, 404-page pdf at my website, which is www.eppic.biz.

Mary Kay: Well that sounds great. This has been really useful information, and it’s been great having you with us. Thanks so much for joining us.

Guy: You’re welcome. Talk to you soon.

Mary Kay: OK! Take care.


SyberWorks, Inc.
411 Waverley Oaks Road
Building 3, Suite 319
Waltham, MA 02452

Bobby/Watchfire Section 508 Approved level 1

Valid XHTML 1.0!

Home | LMS Product Suite | Industry Solutions | Services | Partnership | Courses | About Us | Free Trials | Media Center | Site Map